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Re: zs 180 remap resualts

where this guy matt spent ova an hour tweeking it

The Dastek I had done on the ZS 18 months ago cost £500 and took 8 hours of rolling road tuning to set up.

The MPS I have now, Sanspeed's custom ecu remaps cost £650+vat and take a day to do, including public road and rolling road tuning.

£200 and 'over an hour' doesn't sound optimistic even before they start

 

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Re: zs 180 remap resualts

Heard of George doing 2 cam belt changes in one day, you hear of other garages that have taken 3 days to do one!!! Does it mean ones a better job than the other. Or that if you know exactly what your doing you can do a much more efficient job?!! Time spent does equal job quality! :yup:

different jobs - totally incomparable

 

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Re: zs 180 remap resualts

Not really if you know what your doing you can get a job done in half the time of someone who isnt as 'on the ball'

That works both ways - so effectively you're suggesting people who do take a while don't know what they're doing?? Unlikely.
They'd use the rollers all day on a single car rather than tripling their day's income by rushing 3 cars through?? Unlikely.

It looks like the car in question NEEDED more time on it by the looks of how it's developed

 

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You know, i mapped my last turbo car myself (via a Apexi PFC ecu), so i kinda know a bit about it, and one thing that i have always felt from my brief stint in the world of the ZS, is that i suspect that many of the "mappers" that do these cars, dont do the timing at all.

That probably goes for a lot of "mappers" as most i have seen on other "none turbo" type forums, just seam to download premade generic maps and flash them over, while poncing about on a laptop to make it seam "technical"

I see a totally different type of posting style from people who i know actually map cars "properly" in the jap turbo world, to what i see posted about on the average NASP forum.

I seriously think that regarding the ZS, 9 out of 10 times, all they do is tweak the fueling map and possibly have a minor mess about with the VIS valves.

Which should not take long at all once the wideband is hooked up, seriously, it took me about an hour to make my first ever fuel map, starting with a stock base map supplied with the ecu, it was stupidly easy, fire up wideband and logging software, drive down road with laptop running, log fueling for each zone, pull over, adjust cells in fuel map to hit target lambda, drive down road again to double check, jobs a gooden. Sorting the ignition map took me a lot longer as i had to be double cautious regarding det.

I have tried in vain to find somebody who has had a zs180 mapped for a higher ron fuel, and never found one, i suspect these engines could do with a more aggressive ignition advance.

Now NASP is never going to have such wildly different variables as mapping a turbo car, especially when you start changing turbos, so a lot of time can be saved on that front.

But i just can not see a full new map done on a car in under 2 hours, a tweak yeah, adjusting the fuel map yeah, but changing the ign map, checking for det at various loads/throttle positions = nope.

Top post - as I said earlier a full map is much more than an hour and a couple of hundred quid.

With a nasp car the only real benefit of a tweaked map is to ensure fuelling is safe on the engine after full exhaust, induction and cams have been carried out as the car would have been taken further than the stock ecu can adjust to.

With the dastek on my ZS when I owned it (all be it a piggyback ecu) I paid nearly half a grand and all I got out of it was the knowledge that my fuelling was spot on as the extent of the mods I had were making the fuelling very lean above 5000rpm. The bhp and torque I got wouldn't have been noticeable on a snail to be honest. And that was a whole day's work on road and rollers.

 

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so what your saying is unless you've got a grand to spare niether a generic map done on your drive or a 400 mile round trip to reidy remaps is gonna result in anything more than better fueling ?

I'd refer to it as SAFER fuelling....

2 years ago on my MK2 ZS 180 I spent a total of £1914 over 9 months on modifications. I got stainless manifolds, sports cat, EML eliminator kit, janspeed cat back exhaust and ITG Maxogen induction.
Once you've spent that much money you could argue that £500 to correct the fuelling isn't the end of the world - especially if you consider it protection of your investment.

I spent the first 6 months after my Dastek desperately trying to persuade myself that it had given me noticeable horsepower, more torque etc etc but it simply hadn't. It's only since I've begun running big power turbo cars that I have begun to appreciate the need to do things properly - and making sure the car is fuelling accurately is something that needs to be done.

This is where turbo cars have an advantage. A £400 map can give you a 20bhp lump of extra power, and a substantial amount of torque increase.

My previous Vectra VXR had a standard figure of 279bhp and 258lb/ft torque. I had a generic map put on the car on my driveway. The map had been created using a stock Vectra VXR on a rolling road, so was considered acceptable as long as the customer felt their car was running correctly before the map uploaded. After the map, the car produced a rolling road figure of 301bhp and 400lb/ft torque.

I now have a Mazda 3 MPS. There are only 2 companies in the UK who can hack the ECU. The closest one to me will ONLY remap the car on the rolling road. They will not just upload a stock map. They will diagnose, produce before figures, map according to my existing modifications, take the car out on the public road and live map it, and this takes the entire day to do and costs £650+vat.

I think the long and short of it is that the ZS is mappable. But don't expect the 10-15% gains offered from mapping a turbo car.

 

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you know what, all this about set up on the rollers to correct the fuelling stuff, well kevs zs had full breathing mods and cams and was running over 130k miles last i heard and never had any kind of mapping and he did more trackdays and pod runs at full tilt all day than most put together, i also had my re map taken off which was supposedly correcting the fuelling, nothing altered, car made the same power and got absolutely hammered doing thousands of miles of laps round tracks on the kv6, never missed a beat.

I suppose in that situation you could argue that the car wasn't running at it's 'optimum' potential, as it is common for modded ZS's to run lean high up the revs, but obviously nothing of any significance if kevs has done over 130k!

After my piggyback ecu I did notice that the car could hold it's power slightly longer at the top of the rev range but nothing of any worth really.

I spent almost £4000 on my firefrost ZS as well as the £7k to buy it in the first place, so the final £500 for the map wasn't a big decision despite it making no difference.