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ZS180 - Subaru & TT Eater

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Check out the Hullavington thread. Kevs ZS180 was eating Subaru's and Titties for breakfast. Handling superb, power delivery awesome, all in a car nearly 50% cheaper than a Titty! :D :D
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How? surely an Impreza Turbo is quicker than a ZS180?
On Paper it should be - but the TT and two Scoobs weren't - honest guv. I do realise it may come down to driving ability too. God Kev you won't get out of the door!

Also don't forget 4 wheel drive looses power through 4 wheel drive train. Anyway the answer is don't buy s TT (overpriced piece of German jewellry). :(
cerbman said:
How? surely an Impreza Turbo is quicker than a ZS180?
I have a friend with an Impreza with the Prodrive Performance Pack. It kicks out 254bhp. He was following me on a road that we both know well and, despite being a little damp, he was only able to haul me in on the dual-carriageway. I was even getting as much drive out of the corners as he was. He was certainly surprised how difficult it was even to keep up on the twisties. :D

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ZS180 must be an incredible piece of kit:)
Yes the ZS 180 is an incredible piece ok kit.

Test drove one before getting the ZS 120. Goes like the proverbial hot stuff of a shiney shovel. And all for considerably less than rival manufacturers want to charge for a lower performance car.
There's a really nice anthracite 5 door 180 at my local MGR, if only.:)
Have to say that my ZT190 is every bit the match for my brothers old car (standard UK Impreza Turbo).. That is, round the bends and down the straights. Couldn't keep up off the line though.. The impreza really does have incredible grip off the line, most likely aided by that 4WD system..

Not sure I'll keep up with his new one though... (UK spec STI)..

I bet that your brothers new car is a long way ahead in price as well !!!!!!!!!
I think he's paid something like 27.5k for it...

True, that's well over half way to the ZT385... :)
Hmm. Steve (Anthracite) - a little home truths perhaps! :D

I wasn't 'having trouble' getting past you at all - the thing was it was a busy roundabout and I prefer not to have to back off to keep a safe distance from you. If it was an empty roundabout I would have floored it more and used 4wd oversteer to slingshot me round and would undoubtedly have been quicker out of it. I also then proceeded to catch and pass you in the 100 yards of dual carraigeway to the next roundabout, where I yielded because I didn't know the way to your house :). I'll happily take you on (in the safest possible way of course! :)) on the dual carraigeway roundabout stretch on the A421 through MK any day...

Regarding both as track day cars - this is far more down to the driver to be honest, and how much they're prepared to abuse their car to get the ultimate in speed out of it. I know people in standard UK Scoobs who've eaten a P1 for breakfast, and people in Prodrive'd Scoobs that have passed Ferrari's in the wet. The only real test is to get people to swap cars after a bit and see what happens - my money is on the better driver coming out on top, whichever car that is.

All IMHO of course :)

Also, regarding pricing etc... I bought my MY2000 Impreza brand new and added the Prodrive kit - total sum? Around £16,850. So :p

Out of interest, how many of you guys have driven an Impreza?
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I agree with everything you said regarding drivers. That's why I'm sure Kevin was faster than the 2 "Standard" Scoobs. But the TT he was all over it. :D

However, as we both agree the ZS180 is good value for money, not withstanding the deal you had!

Yes, I've driven a Scoob, only on a test drive, so not at it's full potential. Nice car from the inside :D. Thought about one when I changed briefly to an Elise!

Drove my brothers 2000 spec Turbo... Just waiting for him to let me loose in his 260bhp STi now it's run in... :)

Have to say, that my thoughts are after back to back comparisons:

Comparing the ZT to the Scooby Turbo, I would say the MG is much better built, definately more comfortable and more gadgets available from the factory.

Driving in the wet: Scooby wins every time, especially off the line. While Iain (my brother) goes off into the distance, I'm still spinning the wheels... :)

Also, round the bends, the scoob can get on the power a bit earlier (again due to the increased traction from the 4WD system).

However, the difference isn't as big as you might think. In a straight line from 20mph to an undisclosed speed :)D:D:D), the ZT easily kept up with the scooby, and in normal driving conditions, could easily keep pace.

Sadly, I think it will be a different story now Iain has got the STi. He now has 70+bhp more than me, which lets face it, is more than some cars have! :)

Anyway, this is a bit OT as the topic was talking about the ZS, not the ZT. However, I believe the ZS is slightly quicker than the ZT?

The other thing in the scoobs favour of course is the number of mods you can do to it, which so far haven't appeared for the MG range.

Hope that sheds some (dull) light on the situation! :)
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How'd you get the scoob that cheap anyway?

The full prodrive kit is/was something like 3 grand, and the car itself retailed (then) for about 21k.....

That was some deal you wangled yourself!:D :D :D :D
Bitten Hero said:
I wasn't 'having trouble' getting past you at all
Not what you said at the time! ;) Being a public road, neither of us was pushing 10/10 but, when we got to my place, you said that it was getting twitchy. Made me think that the limit of adhesion was quite similar for the two cars. And I was quite happy to admit that you caught me on the straight - an extra 70bhp will tend to do that. :D

Have to say though that I have been (so far) quite unimpressed with the grip on brothers STi. It only comes with some cheapy bridgestones (RE10s or similar?), and they have no where near the grip of my michelins. Still, they are rather cheaper.. :)
It was starting to get twitchy but that's because I had to ease off a bit :) Wasn't worth the risk of ending up sliding into you :eek: I think the limit of adhesion is probably about the same in terms of normal grip, but with a 4wd system you can pull yourself round a corner faster than you would be able to free-wheel through it.

There's been an interesting discussion on the Scoobynet bulletin board about "Not much real-life difference between cars" about this sort of thing - it shows that really you need ridiculous amounts of power (e.g. 500bhp Skyline, ZT385 :D) before you'll really notice a major difference over any car in the 180-250bhp (2wd) or 250-350bhp (4wd) range. It's more down to the driver and the risks they'll take.

Pricewise for my car - I imported it from Holland for £15.5k new (thanks to Dutch new car tax being 42% and UK being 17.5%) and then imported the Prodrive pack for £1250 from a Belgian dealer, then got it fitted at Scoobysport for £100. Good going I reckon :).

Regarding the new STi - 260bhp but 150kgs heavier than mine, so if it weren't for the 6-speeder in it I would be faster most of the time (ironically!). TT's are not really there in terms of handling etc.

To add more fuel, here's the power/weight and torque/weight ratios of the cars...

ZR 150bhp/tonne 126lbft/tonne
ZS 156bhp/tonne 160lbft/tonne
ZT 126bhp/tonne 124lbft/tonne
ZT385 (est) 255bhp/tonne 235lbft/tonne :eek:
Impreza PPP 206bhp/tonne 218lbft/tonne

I know 4wd knocks out a chunk of power due to drag, but even so - draw your own conclusions! (In other words we all want the 385 :)) Anyway I have no interest in turning this into a 'Scoobies are better/worse than MGs' thread as at the end of the day we all love our cars and that's all that matters.

Bridgestone RE010s are widely reckoned to be... shall we say... the lowest of tyres that you could fit to an Impreza! Most of us use Eagle F1s, Toyo Proxes T1-S, Falcons or Bridgestone SO-2 or SO-3 as they all suit the Scooby much better.

But enough Scoob stuff! :) Just wanted to argue that in native form for both cars, the ZS180 isn't a Subaru eater but is very close - as Anthracite says, I was indeed very impressed by it when I test drove it, and although I can keep up with Steve fine on the roads, that's just because I've always followed him instead of the other way round ;) Seriously, great car the ZS, no two ways about it. Can't wait for the >>200bhp version to come out :D
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Oh well, looks like I misunderstood. My appologies to anyone who placed their order for a ZS instead of a Scoob on the basis of my post. ;) What matters to me is that my car is fun, has abilities far beyond my own and puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it. :D

Hello richard-great posts.
>The only real test is to get people to swap cars after a bit and see what happens <
i'll take you up on that :D
btw, what do you know about the 200bhp ZS ???
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Hi Kevin

Yeah, I like to back up what I say with some facts sometimes :) Makes people realise that I do try to be as unbiased as possible.

As for driver swaps, sorry, no-one drives my Scoob but me ;).

I don't really know anything about the more powerful ZS - I remember there being rumours (official or otherwise) about a special edition, based on the new Touring Car ZS, which would have around 210bhp and a fairly serious body kit. Seems to have gone a bit quiet though :( which is a shame. The ZS is a terrific bit of kit and with a bit more power it would be almost unbeatable, certainly at its price point (ignoring smart Alecs like me who imported theirs :))

Steve, don't take it the wrong way - you saw the size of my smile when I got out of the ZS after the test drive :D. It's the closest thing I've ever driven to a Scooby for chassis ability and sheer driver enjoyment, and if I didn't already have an Impreza then I would have been banging the door down on the MGR dealer. And to think you were looking at the Leon VT ;).
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