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Looks like one, its LHD and looks right for a S1600. Good pic! Nice Rover 25 there ;-))

Why is it people with LHD cars put tax disc on wrong side of window? Its not like lower left hand corner is in your vision! On rally cars its a good idea to attach it to the roll cage rather than screen so if you do have a roll and loose screen at least you stil have the tax disc!
 

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Looks like one, its LHD and looks right for a S1600. Good pic! Nice Rover 25 there ;-))

Why is it people with LHD cars put tax disc on wrong side of window? Its not like lower left hand corner is in your vision! On rally cars its a good idea to attach it to the roll cage rather than screen so if you do have a roll and loose screen at least you stil have the tax disc!
Apart from the body kit, how do you know its a R25? Curious =D I should imagine XPower got fed up of replacing battered body kits on the Rally cars so at some point in the season gave up lol
 

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You are all quite right chaps, it is indeed an ex-MG Sport & Racing MG ZR Super 1600 spec car! The Tuer's acquired it a couple of years ago and put their own private reg no on the car - previously it was reg no BU02 OCS, and mainly an ex-Gwyndaf Evans car.

From memory, I'm pretty sure it competed on the 2003 Manx Int'l Rally and 2003 Ulster Int'l Rally with Gwyndaf, and then went on to be used by the - some might say 'untalented' - Natalie Barratt on the 2004 Janner Rallye (in Austria) and 2004 Monte Carlo Rallye, before returning to MG S&R for Gwyndaf to use on the 2004 Rally of the Midlands.

I'm not sure how much you lot know about rallying - except you Matt of course! (How's things by the way mate?) - but manufacturer's have to design and develop a rally car to comply with a certain set of regulations, and then get them inspected by the authorities to ensure they do in fact comply, and that they have built them in a required number of vehicles of that spec. The process is known as homologation.

The MG shown above was built to compete in the Junior World Rally Championship (JWRC) under the Super 1600 rules. For that, manufacturers had to base the car on a production car that been built, and I think sold, in so many thousands (Sorry can't recall exactly how many at the moment, but could be 5000?). As the car was developed as long ago as 2001, I don't think enough MG ZRs had been built by then, so the car was based on the Rover 25 instead - hence the Rover 25 front and rear bumpers!

The car was actually homologated on 1st January 2002 as the 'MG Rover 25' because of this, but was also given the MG Experimental Code No 'EX258' - a tradition that stretches right back to the 1930s to the Abingdon-built racing cars and land speed record breakers, and right up to more recent times with the BTCC and Le Mans entries!

I hope that helps - please feel free to correct me if I am wrong though Matt.:dunno:

Here's a couple more photos of the same car from the other events mentioned above...









 

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Brilliant info there Dave.
You are a wealth of knowledge:yup:

Is there any results for this car?

Hope you are keeping well.
 

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Hi Dave, good get some factoids from the captain!

Yes pretty much on the money with most of that.

The R25 had be used as the base ZR was too long (bumper extensions) but 25 just crept in. Its a long time ago now and I am not sure if S1600 also required there to be a 1600 version of the base car too and of course there was no 1600 ZR.

I think the homologation papers actually show it as Rover 25 MG ZR S1600. If Jorma pops by he knows as he has a copy of the homologation papers.

NB was a waste of space in this car, aruably a waste of space in any car. I think it was recovered by S&R due to financial reasons.

Gwyndaff certainly pushed this car well and if the development budget had been available to Ian Tilsley and his team at Longbridge it could have acheived a lot more. Original builders were not very good, except burning through money!
 

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Thanks Gaz - it's all in there somewhere, it's just getting a little harder to retrieve these days that's all! I am indeed keeping well, thank you. And your good self? Likewise thanks Matt for your acknowledgement too.

Results Gaz? For this individual car, or for all of the S1600s? I don't think there has ever been anything documented to be honest, but as Matt said the car's early results - under the original builders - weren't anything fantastic. As with virtually every motorsport project MG has taken on in recent years - the budget has never been enough. Only when the car was brought back under the control of MG S&R at Longbridge did it start getting the results.

Regarding BU02 OCS : 2003 Manx - retired (transmission); 2003 Ulster - retired (engine); 2004 Janner - retired (crashed); 2004 Monte - retired (wheel studs sheared) and 2004 Midlands - 3rd Overall (Yippeee!).

I also recall something about the MG ZR being too long for the S1600 class Matt, but looking at the photos above, I reckon the splitter that's fitted actually sticks out further than the standard MG ZR version. Could be wrong though.

You're also right about the 1600cc engine as well - only ever appeared in a Rover.

Interestingly, the car was actually badged an an 'MG XPOWER' and they actually had some special badges made just for this car. You will note however that the front badge is MG octagon badge shaped, and the rear badge is Rover longship badge shaped. I wonder if this is so that the car could use the MG ZR grille, and therefore lok a lot more like an MG ZR than the Rover 25? After all, MG was always pushed as the younger, more racey, and supposedly motorsport developed side of the company.
 

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I think the issues with 25 v ZR were all to do with the production car spec Dave. Ie the base car must be within a certain set of dimensions and then the S1600 regs allowed extra on top of that. I think it was same with engine, the base road car must have a 1600 unit in although I don't think you were forced to use that engine.

I seem to think the Saxo kit car that launch a certain S Loeb, was obviously 1600 but the actual engine family was a 1600 version of another PSA powerplant, possibly a sleeved down unit.

As I say its a long time ago and the mists of time and ltrs of wine and coffee since then make the draws in the brains filing cabinet harder to open!

I am sure if someone (Dave will do it!) looks on FIA website they will have the S1600 regulations on there pertaining to base car specs and then modification permitted.

For anyone who wants to know who main man at S&R wh actually did some engineering on this project looks like, check out the workshop pic, showing the freshly recoveded car with subtle alterations to it livery, he has his back to the camera. Top Bloke.
 

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Thanks for your input Matt, most appreciated. You were certainly more connected to the company at the time - so I have no doubt about what you're saying being correct.

Agree totally - what a sound bloke Tils is. Always had time for a chat with a 'fan', which often went very nicely with a warm brew from Martin in some rain soaked service area in the early hours of the morning I can tell you. Happy times...
 

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Nice car and nice sound,great to see flying through the forests,
Here's a pic :carstart:

Great photo, that is me in the passanger seat !

You are quite correct with the car history, it is the original Gwyndaf car that was reshelled after his accident on the Jim Clark. It is the only car to have te xtrac box fitted for Gwyndaf as he kept breaking the riccardo box, but I dont think he every got to do a rally with the xtrax box just testing.

We know of one other s1600 in Ireland and one in the reunion island.

We also have most of the parts for the s1600 and are currently building a brand new one as a second car.

We to had the problem with shearing the wheel studs see the results here !



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3jXG5DB8qk


It can be seen in sction here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6fxtYhY0oM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jelnKcDb8j0

Regards

Rob
 

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R.I.P [The Red Zed] MG ZS 180
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Cracking stuff Rob and welcome to XPF
 

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For homologation production number was 2500 cars in following 12 months.
It is a grp A homologation, exactly it´s more tuned variant using so called VK kit parts. Under grp A rules it had to be orginal 1600 version as a base car.
Homologation day is 1 st of january 2002, just ready before Rally Monte Carlo.

Body panels are homologated also so every bumper must look ( at least should )
like in the homologation picture. Little grp N/A ( 0 to 2000 cc )has ended but S1600 homologation is still FIA legal. There is an alternative grille for it in papers, to suit better commercial name MG ZR.

The first version of the engine gave 205 hp. It was made by " famous " rally car building company Gordon Spooner. When all the money was gone Sport & Racing started to build S1600 cars and engines in house. Aston Martin in here was one of those engine specialist and I`ll think he told they get 35 hp more to it after some development work. Even just over 200 and not much torque Ricardo ( Gemini ) 6-speed couldn`t last long enough so S&R started to test stronger, even more expensive gearbox. That version couldn`t reach homologation process.
 

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The first version of the engine gave 205 hp. It was made by " famous " rally car building company Gordon Spooner. When all the money was gone Sport & Racing started to build S1600 cars and engines in house. Aston Martin in here was one of those engine specialist and I`ll think he told they get 35 hp more to it after some development work. Even just over 200 and not much torque Ricardo ( Gemini ) 6-speed couldn`t last long enough so S&R started to test stronger, even more expensive gearbox. That version couldn`t reach homologation process.
We have just build a engine for the new car, we used an existing s1600 engine which came with the spares bought at the auction. We have done work to the cams and head and replaced the single inltet with throttle bodies and it gives 225bhp on the dyno. Our engine builder stated that the original engine must have been around 205bhp which would seem true looking above. So we now dont know if the one in the current car is only 205bhp or is it a latter one with more power ?.

Yes you are also correct that the car is not homologated with the xtrac box.

When we get the second car built we are nto sure if we will keep both as we have nearly enough parts to build a third including a brand new s1600 shell. The new car should be good as we have developed it further than the original one.

The car in the reunion island is now also up for sale if someone want one.

We have found the reliabilty to be great we have done five events since our accident on the clark and we have won the class five times, which is a excellent track record for any car especially a s1600. Before buying the MG we considered other s1600's (puma, 106, and saxo) but we are very please with our choice, the standard panels also make the car very cost effective for gravel rallying.

Regards

Rob
 

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R.I.P [The Red Zed] MG ZS 180
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Rob can you keep us updated with any news on the cars etc.

I will be specially interested with you being close to us.
 
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