[witness]

My Dad unfortunately lost one of his aunts last year and was contacted by company that takes 3% for finding the next of kin until a will is found or people written in to the will (Cant remember the exact name/type of company). After there originally being no will left it took about 6 months and now there is one? In this time her house has been sold so all family possessions must now be binned which is the most annoying part. According to the solicitors (dont know who appointed them) it turns out that the whole will was left to the Vegetarian society even tho my aunt was not a veggie. This seems rather strange so hes requested to see the will made by his aunt. His aunt passed away in December last year and her estate should have been published in July buy the solicitors.

How can you see the publised estates of the deceased? Can anyone shed some light on how these legal matters arise as we are stumped? My Dad and his sister are looking in to free legal advise as a starter, it just seems the solicitors could be pulling a fast one on them.

Thanks for reading as its a bit of an essay. Any info appreciated, Rob

 

[peteT16]

Have you tried Citizens Advice, if they don't know the answers themselves they will certainly be able to put you in touch with people who can help.

It seems very sketchy that a will appears after 6 months, have you any idea who witnessed it, I wouldn't expect the solicitors to be pulling a fast one, the penalties are too severe for it to be worth the risk.

 

[p_b82]

Something Def sounds odd, as above i would talk to CAB and see what they have to say.

I thought in a case where there was no Will it was down to imediate family to 'fight it out' as it were.

You can still contest the will, even if there is one, so I would def want to see a copy of it as my starting point.

 

[witness]

Cheers for the advise guys it all seems a bit fishy from what my Dad says. I will have a proper chat with him over the weekend and avise he contacte CAB as soon as. Think he may want to hold fire till him and his sister see the will.

Rob

 

[RaptorUK]

I thought in a case where there was no Will it was down to imediate family to 'fight it out' as it were.

No, there is a hierarchy, Spouse, Children, Parents, Siblings, etc

 

[p_b82]

i agree there is a hierachy, but if nothing has been put down in writing you are all allowed to make a claim against the estate. (as covered by: Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975)

If multiple people all claim the same things or argue that it should not to to one who is making a claim then it can get nasty...

Anyhoo bit OT there

 

[Talkingcars]

Sorry to her about your aunt.

If she left no will her estate will be classed as "intestate" (sp). Sorting it is complicated. If she left a will it should be published once the tax has been settled and probate has been granted.

To start with I would do a search on google or yahoo on wills, probate and intestate. I would also check out the solicitors, are they registered etc?

Also - who sold the house, on whose say so are they acting.

Dying without a will is messy so I urge everyone to get one done as soon as possible or your loved ones will loose out if the unthinkable happens.

 

[Talkingcars]

Something Def sounds odd, as above i would talk to CAB and see what they have to say.

Agreed about using CAB, thats what they are there for.

I thought in a case where there was no Will it was down to imediate family to 'fight it out' as it were.

If there is no will most of it goes to the goverment, the family will only get to "discuss" things not in the will. When my mum died she left a few bits to named family members but everything else was left to my dad, frustratingly he is now in a nursing home so we are having to deal with most of it as if we were acting on his will.

You can still contest the will, even if there is one, so I would def want to see a copy of it as my starting point.

If there is a will you can contest it, if there isn't you can make a claim but may still loose out.

 

[RaptorUK]

If there is no will most of it goes to the goverment, the family will only get to "discuss" things not in the will.

Sorry, that doesn't make sense . .

If there is no will everything goes to the Spouse, if no Spouse 50% goes to the children (there are conditions), if no children then parents, if no parents then siblings, etc

If there are no relatives the estate goes to the Government.

 

[Patrick]

There seems to be precious few facts in this problem and the few there are seem to contradict each other.

Your father’s aunt dies and the belief is that she left no will yet a solicitor has taken over administration of the her estate and sold a major asset of the house. Now to sell that house the solicitor must have gained Probate and this can only be achieved if they have also settled the tax position on the estate with the Inland Revenue (or whatever they are called now). To do all this in 6 months for someone who dies intestate is a stunningly fast result as solicitors move at glacial speed in most matters and in particular when dealing with the dead.

To obtain Probate the solicitor will have had to apply to the High Court (Family Division) and as part of this process swear an oath that everything is OK. If you are found to have lied then the charge is perjury and that is extremely serious offense.

To have gained Probate the estate administrator will have needed to hand over the original copy of the will to the government department that looks after these things at which point it becomes public properly open to all to read.

This sounds more like disappointed expectant heirs rather than a dodgy solicitor.

Sorry to her about your aunt.

Dying without a will is messy so I urge everyone to get one done as soon as possible or your loved ones will loose out if the unthinkable happens.

It ain’t unthinkable, it is inevitable!

 

[RaptorUK]

Your father’s aunt dies and the belief is that she left no will . . .


To have gained Probate the estate administrator will have needed to hand over the original copy of the will

Not really sure what you are saying here . . 2nd comment seems to contradict the first.

My understanding is that if there is a will there will be Executors as laid out in the will . . .

If there is no will then Administrators are appointed.

Some info here: http://probate1.com/duties.html

 

[witness]

Many thanks for all the info/links etc I will pass them on to my Dad, I'm seeing him tomorrow so may have an update for me. My dads just disappointed about the lost memories of the possesions that may have been binned etc... Im the one persuading to check the trail of information as it seems strange.

Rob

 

[kindofblue]

:

Hope things go well witness. Try to get someone independent and without any financial interest to look at the details if you can.

*****

In terms of a will - I've made mine and you should too, now. If you die without one (intestate), this is a licence to print money for a solicitor and I can guarantee they will leech the estate for their fees before ANY family member sees a penny.

Call me bitter or call me cynical, but despite the threat of perjury and the law you cannot assume that someone is straight just because of their profession. I understand the need for solicitors but generally have a poor regard for them along with their golfing pals the accountants.

I've seen several instances over the years of professional misconduct from both and seen them deliberately delay and complicate things to crank up the billing hours. I've seen them treat laymen - ordinary folk like you and me - as if we are idiots, sheep to be herded here and there.... the 'marching moron's I heard one say to a colleague many years ago when I was regularly in court (on the right side of the law). I disliked the whole theatre of the court, the bartering and oneupmanship.... it was like a game to them and I witnessed a lack of respect and ethics on a number of occasions.

I also don't like the closed shop mentality and the Masonic nods and winks. Why be so secretive unless there is some special advantage they are protecting. And of course this advantage is leveraged off the backs of the unwashed and unknowledgeable. Have you ever seen a poor solicitor or accountant..... I mean ever?

On one occasion an accountant introduced an investor to a company I was working for. On his recommendation the investor was accepted. The two colluded together, drip fed the business until the owner was forced to sell wholesale due to the debt and then got rid of the staff and asset stripped the company. The accountant effectively swept up the books so that nothing illegal or manipulative appeared. The investor had an Aston, the accountant a Porsche and now you know why. I know this because I had shares in the original company and fought them both for two years.... and lost £5,000.

I had another example recently with a firm of barristers in Leeds (last year) when I had prepared a very thorough patent application for an investment proposal. I had used a well known firm of specialist patent lawyers for this as well as polymer science and engineering experts at Bradford University. Everything was nailed down tight including the invention path and history, letters of exemption, the lot. The firm in Leeds insisted that I complete the whole process again for their client with their own patent partner and 3 or 4 other deadbeats they walked in - it took 2 months, cost £23,000 and found..... nothing. A complete and utter waste of time which will go towards a new Bentley for one of the partners no doubt.

And now, just to rescue a vestage of positive Karma :grouphug: after my outpouring of frustration with them...... of course they are not all bent, and if there are any reading this (doubtful, as they will be on a beech in the West Indies this month :moon please don't take it personally. I'm sure that the majority of you are perfectly hard working, straight and professional.

P

 

[tcb180]

Going back a few years there was a local firm of solicitors creaming off mega thousands from estates in this way. We got em though!

 

[Patrick]

:



I've seen several instances over the years of professional misconduct from both and seen them deliberately delay and complicate things to crank up the billing hours. I've seen them treat laymen - ordinary folk like you and me - as if we are idiots, sheep to be herded here and there.... the 'marching moron's I heard one say to a colleague many years ago when I was regularly in court (on the right side of the law). I disliked the whole theatre of the court, the bartering and oneupmanship.... it was like a game to them and I witnessed a lack of respect and ethics on a number of occasions.


P

Well we only have one side of your stories but the message is surely to only do business with people you know and trust or at the very least is known and well regarded by people you know and trust. This is why people network through Clubs, Livery Companies or (for local business, the Masons). It is not a collection of secret societies, it is to get connected and be able to separate the good from the crooks. It also gives you informal (i.e. free) access to advice on things you may not understand (like patents).

And yes, I have known poor solicitors and accountants. in particular those who gained a reputation for being dishonest or idle! Indeed some have became unemployable in their specialism because of their reputation.

Life is much nicer in the tent than outside.

 

[kindofblue]

Hi Patrick

Thankyou for the reply. I'm sorry if I came across as bashing all professional people - that was not my intention. I was just trying to open a few eyes.

Well we only have one side of your stories but the message is surely to only do business with people you know and trust or at the very least is known and well regarded by people you know and trust.

I was a Police detective who left the force with an exemplary record and two commendations for bravery (one for tackling an armed robber - I was 21 and on foot patrol at the time). I do tend to enthuse a little too much when writing, but I have led an honest life. You do not need to accept the 'stories' Patrick, just look for yourself between the cracks.

If you are a solicitor or accountant (or a member of your family is) then welcome to the board. I did not mean to suggest that every solicitor or accountant is dishonourable, rather I was questioning the preconception that we are programmed to believe as children - that politicians, bankers, lawyers and people of high rank, status and/or breeding are as honest as the day is long and of good stock / virtue. I do not believe that this is true and to assume so is living your life in the dark.

The intelligencia would prefer to keep you there without light. I think it was Plato who first started the idea.... that the world belongs to the intelligent and educated and the masses are to be treated like sheep to be farmed hither and thither. This doctrine is still read today at some public schools and institutions like Oxford and Harvard. The white colonials had a saying for poorly educated black people back in the day "keep them in the fields". It was not intended to be a literal statement but rather it meant 'keep them out of our business and congress'. It still exists in the higher echelons of business today. Of course it does - why should they share their good fortune with the masses? Would you?

Your point is exactly right about trust... but who can you trust other than those you know intimately. And as B.B. King once said "no one loves me but my mother.... and she could be jivin' me too."

The point is to be informed and careful in any business or legal dealings. And watch out for the circling Great Whites. They exist, lets not pretend otherwise.

This is why people network through Clubs, Livery Companies or (for local business, the Masons). It is not a collection of secret societies, it is to get connected and be able to separate the good from the crooks. It also gives you informal (i.e. free) access to advice on things you may not understand (like patents).

The premise is good I agree and things like Business Link and Yorkshire Forward can do a lot of good. I am a member of several 'business clubs' and my local chamber of commerce. I own a design company and have traded successfully for 12 years now. Unfortunately, particularly in something like the lodge or a private investors club, human nature tends to corrupt the advantage of the few for personal benefit in a situation where there is a closed shop with little accountability - MP's expenses is a fine example.

Look at the bankers who caused the world's worst financial crisis since Wall Street for more evidence. In England the banks were regulated by the FSA who are staffed primarily by.... you guessed it, accountants and retired bankers. Fox's guarding the chicken coop - nice. And who allowed this to sneak through under his watch... Gordon Brown, another accountant. This is how he managed to encourage finance into Britain and thereby grow Canary Wharfe into a world financial centre - by allowing bankers to self regulate and they were laughing all the way to the.... bank (sorry). Senior bankers remain true to their character and haven't suddenly become righteous or curbed the greed - already they are positioning huge bonuses once again (if you accept the BBC and British press). I heard an American banker suggest on a late night business show this month (Russia Today) that the silver lining of the crisis is that it "put down the weak and allowed those more capable to move forwards, which is not a bad thing" - whatever that means if read between the lines (NWO?).

I do not believe that financiers in the Hampton's or Mayfair care about the damage they have done to countless small businesses and lives across the world. It's not even on their radar and I believe that the higher levels of the law may well follow the same elitist sentiments. This influence tends to flow downhill to all levels which brings us back to the solicitors and accountants.

And yes, I have known poor solicitors and accountants. in particular those who gained a reputation for being dishonest or idle! Indeed some have became unemployable in their specialism because of their reputation.

I agree. It is just a shame that they tend to close shop around their own. It's rare for a successful prosecution. How many in the legal/financial sector have you seen go down? The CPS in England used to employ the backstop of a "50% chance of success" i.e. if they did not believe that there was a good chance of winning they would not take the case to court - most legalese get out of jail with this one OR a good barrister to stall the case for years which then involves too much cost for the state, so its dropped.

Then there is the 'peoples confidence' play - i.e. better to go quietly rather than damage the industries reputation. I witnessed this countless times in the Police, including the odd senior Police official.

Life is much nicer in the tent than outside.

Erm, I agree and that may well be so but it is a ****** when the tent is zipped up and locked whilst you are in the rain preparing their food or cleaning up their mess. That's the problem with privilege - its for the few and excludes the many.

If you are talking about the lodge again, well you have to be recommended (and useful) and loyal to get in. You have to swear an allegiance that puts the good of the group ahead of all others. I preferred the oath I swore to protect Queen and country when I put my life on the line for the community as a whole. It was a selfless act done in youth when I believed all was balanced and fair in the world. I do not regret this naivety, however, I'm a little older and wiser now. I no longer bow with cap in hand to anyone unless they earn my trust and respect first and my standards are high.

Thank you again for responding. Now, anyone fancy a nice cup of hot Yorkshire tea?


P

 

[kindofblue]

:

Apologies witness - did not mean to hijack your thread - hope you get sorted OK. Trust no one - assume nothing - find out for yourself - best in the long run.

P

 

[kindofblue]

Going back a few years there was a local firm of solicitors creaming off mega thousands from estates in this way. We got em though!

Yes bud, and here 'up North' you will remember the recent case of the many miners who were pointed towards a certain group of "respected" solicitors to handle their medical claims for emphysema and cancer. In some cases the families were now bereaved i.e. the claimant was DEAD and trusted these people to sift through the minutae on their behalf. This did not stop the heartless *******s from fleecing off thousands of pounds from the claims value - in some examples the solicitors received MORE than the recipient (family) after settlement. How could they sleep at night. No dignity or honesty - doesn't say much for passing the bar does it.

Of course when the press got hold of it, the local authority claimed that these were isolated instances - funny how these things are always isolated instances when someone like this gets caught stealing from those less fortunate. A bit like the isolated expenses frauds which turned out to be wholesale robbery by half of the government. Did you know that many MP's are lawyers by trade like... Tony Blair?

P

 

[pete b]

I am sorry but was it the BMC or the itg maxogen you where endorsing.

 

[DeMoNPauL]

I am sorry but was it the BMC or the itg maxogen you where endorsing.

Who are you quoting Pete?