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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys,

I'm in the middle of changing the belts on my ZS180... at the point where releasing belt tension is the next step, but I've one little worry point before I do that.

The little V notch and arrow on the crank pulley / oil housing are VERY slightly off... maybe a degree or two. But the pin is safely in the flywheel. If I turn the crank slightly so it's perfectly aligned, the pin will no longer go in.

I'd imagine so long as it's locked with the pin, and all cam pulleys are marked and realigned with the new belt fitted, everything should be fine?

I'd feel happier if those two marks were perfect, though, so just wanted a second opinion before I proceed and remove tension from the belt. Any thoughts?

Cheers!

Edit: pic
 

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It's not uncommon for the mark to be slightly off, it is important the the locking pin lines up with the hole in the flywheel, so thats the datum I would use

In fact thinking on a bit some engines used to have offset Woodruff keys to get around slight discrepancies in alignment, I don't know if they were ever available for the V6.
 

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Administrator
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Use the locking pin position, you'll be fine.

Have fun!
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Cheers guys, helps with the confidence to get the go ahead, rather than diving in and finding out later that I have a problem...!

haha! Yeah, I can see why this job usually costs £500+! I've spent ages already just removing all the bits and pieces up to this point! Hoping the weather holds because I'm doing this all outside... lol!
 

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A boffin and proud of it
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1,893 Posts
Have fun.
Provided the crank and cams are locked, then the relative positions of the pulleys will be fine.

When you are putting it back together, re-attaching a pipe clip to the engine will be a nightmare. Rather than try to hold the pipe clip in position and start the screw, cut a length of studding, screw it into the hole then the pipe clip can be assembled over the studding and nutted up. Easy!
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Cheers Sheddist! That's a good idea! Some of those clips were fiddly to get at and I've heard they can be right ******s to get back on... I'll have to see what spare bolts I have lying around that I can butcher... hehe! :)
 

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When you are putting it back together, re-attaching a pipe clip to the engine will be a nightmare. Rather than try to hold the pipe clip in position and start the screw, cut a length of studding, screw it into the hole then the pipe clip can be assembled over the studding and nutted up. Easy!
Ahhhh that pesky rear pipe mounting! What a pain but do-able with a 1/4" drive socket and ratchet.

The front one more often than not shears off, too!

That's a very useful tip.
 

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Cheers Sheddist! That's a good idea! Some of those clips were fiddly to get at and I've heard they can be right ******s to get back on... I'll have to see what spare bolts I have lying around that I can butcher... hehe! :)
I don't think you've seen the best yet!

Any problems just post here and we'll do out best to help you
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Gas-Axe! Might well be needing some more help before the job's done. lol!

I haven't actually had much time to work on it today, but what I DID manage to do was remove the main belt and start replacing the tensioner, idler and water pump... and shear off one of the water pump bolts. Nice! Probably shouldn't have tried out my new (small) Teng torque wrench for the very first time on that...!

Now where's my drill...? :bh
 

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Oh dear!

I never use a torque wrench on these type of fixings; nip them up securely with a 1/4" drive ratchet.
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
WP bolt wasn't a problem since it was at the top and had free space behind (in the vee), so that' was easily drilled and sorted. Didn't even try to torque those again as Haynes instructs, don't worry. lol!

Still slowly tackling the job. Main belt was fairly straight forward, but the two secondary belts... umm, yeah. The tool in my (rented) Laser kit doesn't seem to be quite the right fit. It's almost there, but not quite right to fit into the slots etc when everything is lined up... we're talking half a mm out, but enough to stop me getting it on there!

Also, with the timing pin in, the rear bank is about half a tooth out of alignment... would the call here be to remove those as they are and refit them lined up properly? I'd have to do that the 'no special tools' way, though, I think.
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Guys, in an effort to properly understand the timing system on a KV6, could anyone explain the procedure for fitting a set of new cams, in terms of setting the timing from fresh?

Don't worry, I haven't broken my cams and I haven't particularly gone any further than fitting the main belt so far (got plenty of time so I'm in no rush), but I'm the kinda guy who likes to understand exactly what I'm doing, rather than blindly following the instructional video and/or Haynes. :carstart:

I assume the procedure for setting timing from new would be along the lines of:

Timing pin in; engine in 'safe' position
Main belt fitted by rotating each pulley fully clockwise with the locking tools fitted
Bolts torqued and belt tensioned

Ok, from here I'm not sure how the other pulleys are fixed to the cams (gearbox end) as I haven't removed any yet. I'm sure I read that at least one of these was not keyed to the shaft, and if so I'd imagine that would have to be the inlet cam. So, would the procedure be along the lines of fitting the exhaust pulley (which is hopefully keyed to the shaft?) and rotating it so that both in. and ex. pulleys are aligned in the middle, then torque them up with the tools fitted (and the belt skilfully in place and tensioned by this point)?

Am I along the right lines at all? :err:
 

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A boffin and proud of it
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Best to do the back belts first, these are then in the right position relative to each other. I had a simialr issue with the laser timing tool and ended up not removing the inlet (IIRC) pulley. It was tricky to re-assemble but possible.

Once the back belts are set correctly, and the front tools fitted, then the front pulleys will rotate slightly to allow the belt to be fitted without having to move the cams or crank. This assumes the front pulley bolts have been losened. If not the timing may well be out.
 

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Both back pullies are keyed.
 

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How have you progressed with this job?
 

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If he's getting along anywhere near the way I did, he'd be trying to repair the dipstick tube top securing bracket which broke off during removal.

However - I sincerely doubt that Welshy's anywhere near as clumsy as I was . . . . probably too engrossed in KV6 heaven to post on the forum :D
 

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R.I.P [The Red Zed] MG ZS 180
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19,410 Posts
No news is good news:yup:
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
hehe! Sorry for the lack of updates.

The belts are done but I'm currently waiting for delivery of a new oil filter (should be here tomorrow with a bit of luck) before I can put in the new oil and start her up. Completely forgot to buy one until this point in the job. Oops! Also waiting for a break in the weather...!

The rented timing tools went back today so hopefully there's no misfire... half expecting one, though! (Even though all the Tipp-Ex marks are "pretty much" spot on as they were before I touched the belts, I'm still not convinced the timing was perfect from the start...)

This was the first cam belt change I've done entirely by myself, and the first V6 ever... so we'll have to see when I turn the key!

I'll post the results (hopefully good news) possibly tomorrow! :)
 

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Since 1987.
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92 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Well, just to keep this thread updated, I started her up this evening and everything seems well! :beerchug

Haven't moved the car more than a couple of inches yet, but she's sounding good on idle, at least. A bit tappety, but she's always been that way, and of course the fresh 5W40 is probably making that a little more noticeable right now.

Weather permitting, I'll flush the coolant tomorrow (plain water in there at the moment), check the oil and see if the throttle cable needs adjusting, then she'll be about ready for a short test drive. Oh, except for a couple of awkward freakin' brackets I haven't got round to refitting yet. Definitely going to be using Sheddist's tip for those!
 
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