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Discussion Starter #1
last night didn't start very well for me,i had been looking forward to seeing the 70's cult classic vanishing point only to discover it was some piss poor imitation made in 1997.
so its now 3am the race starts,pile up first corner.i'm expecting a red flag and so do the drivers who are running back to the pits but amazingly its yellow so their sprint is in vain.
the race restarts and others drop out and we are left with the spectical of 8 cars racing round the track:mad:
And what was rubens doing? i know jim will say he was defending the racing line and all that but time and time again this has happened and has the time now come for rolling starts?
people paid good money to see that race and 8 cars driving round a track dont count as entertainent to me.(roll on BTCC)
 

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the voice of reason!!!
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I watched it this afternoon and couldn't beleive it. Ralf's ariel antics and David's off road driving, whatever next.
On the up side, a promising start (but little else) from Alan McNish.
 

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Yes, I stopped up and watched Vanishing Point. Totally agree, not as good as the original.

F1 is a total farce and is there any wonder they call it the circus. What is it with the Germans. If they can't drive round you then they'll certainly have ago at driving over you. "Bootmaker" (snr) did the same to Coulthard at Spa a couple of seasons ago.

Roll on the Sportscar season. Proper racing. Me thinks little Allan McNish would have been better off sticking to Sportscar Racing and kept his creditability rather than get involved in a bunch of Clowns and corporate puppies.

Long Live Le Mans.

Jim
 

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Well my opinion is that RB probably shouldn't have moved back over, but on the other hand, he probably wasn't expecting RS to still be accelerating when everyone else had started braking!

Everyone is moaning that because loads of cars were taken out at the start, there were only 11 or 12 cars left. I think it's a shame that so much damage was caused (did I hear right at about 10m!!). On the other hand, it did mean that Mark Webber managed to score points for Minardi on his debut. Not a bad start IMHO.

Other thoughts on the GP prove that no much changes anyway:

McClaren start the year with dodgy reliability (nothing new there)
Ferrari are flying.
Schumi proves once again that he is the best.
Rubens is involved in an accident at the start of the year again (and Ralf too). Althought this time Rubens is on the receiving end.
Jenson Button doesn't make it past the first bend.
Oh and Montoya and SChumi have a little battle (like a few times last year).
One thing is different though..........Ford (i mean Jaguar) are slower than usual.

BTW, I am most definately NOT a RB or schumi fan (either of them!).

Favourite teams are Jordan, Minardi, Williams, Ferrari.
Favourite drivers are Jean Alesi (gone but not forgotten), JPM, Irvine (not for his driving ability, but for his ability to spout bollox at any given time! :D)

Still, ignoring the top 3, there were some good battles through the rest of the field. (Webber/Salo for instance).

Right, now lets see if that provokes some debate... :D
 

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The stewards had no way of knowing that everyone was ok once all those cars had collided! Instinct shud have said red flag, stop the race!! Had schumi (M) been in amongst it it would have been stopped I'm sure!!
 

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But you don't know what they knew. The only people involved in any serious incident were RB and RS. But they both jumped out of the car very quickly!. The stewards would have been in contact with the relevant teams straight away to find out if they'd heard from their drivers, and it was obivous even to me that they were all ok.

The rest were no worse than any other accident that happens during the race. And they rarely red flag the race then.

Normally in red-flag situations, they still go round behind the pace car for a lap or two unless the track is blocked, and the stewards decide then whether to stop the race or not. By this point, all the drivers were jogging back to their respective pit areas...

Agreed though, they probably would have red-flagged the race if MS was involved... :D

BTW, does anyone know why the qualifying was red-flagged just after the start? DC went off, but that was about it. Didn't really see much reason for it.

Does seem like the stewards were being a bit inconsistent.
 

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Nick - A red flag means STOP. The race has been Stopped. Pace car situations are only deployed under a Yellow Flag, drive with caution.

In my opinion the race should have been stopped. All the shards of carbon fibre littered the racing line was evident enough. Besides just think of the poor sods that paid £200 plus for a grandstand ticket. They really did see a race unfold - not.

F1 has changed so much over the years. Gone are the days when you stuck a DFV in the back of your "Backyard Special" and raced the might of Tyrrell, McLaren or Lotus for that matter. Most of the cars looked different. Today they all look "samey". You could wander into the paddock and chat with the drivers and that was at no cost!

Bernard Ecclestone certainly has alot to answer for. No wonder he is the 3rd richest person in the UK. Money made from the likes of such as me. However, I haven't been to GP since 1993 (that was a practice session) and neither do I intend going to a F1 race again. Over rated, unspectacular and processional.

Jim

That should start a healthy debate.
 

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Jim, fair enough, my writing was worded badly and you've misunderstood what I mean. What I meant to say was:

Historically, unless the track is obviously blocked, before the red flag comes out, they tend to immediately go to pace car anyway, before deciding to red-flag the race. This way, they can make a calm rational desicion as to whether the race needs to be stopped. In this situation, they did this and decided there was no need, as they thought they could clear the debris without stopping the race.

Even RS said that although it meant he didn't get another go, he realised there was no need to stop the race because of this incident, and that there was actually very little debris around.

I understand your point of view from the spectators perspective, but surely your anger should surely be directed towards the drivers involved in causing the mayhem, not the organisers. After all, it was them that caused half the field to be decimated at the first corner, not the organisers. If drivers are out, they should stay out, even if there's a restart (IMO). This would discourage certain drivers from their kamikazee exploits.

I think a part of the problem here is that the cars are much safer than they used to be. In 1980 (or even more recently) if you had a major accident, there was every chance you'd be dead or at least seriously injured. Now, they are much much safer, so are more willing to take silly risks. Also, the overall standard of driving has gone down in the last few years (a couple of drivers excepted). Take a look back to the late 80s/early 90s when Prost, Senna, Mansell etc were all driving, the amount of skill was overall much higher than it is now, with the exception of teams like pacific.... :)

I'll take off my rose tinted specs now... :D:D:D:D
 

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There was an article in the sports section of my Saturday newspaper saying that a number of companies, including ***, DaimlerChrysler and, IIRC, Toyota, have been approaching several promoters and television companies regarding starting a rival championship. Their reason is that the move towards pay-per-view rather than free-to-air is more about lining Bernie's pocket and less about getting the exposure for their advertising. A nail in the coffin of F1? Maybe everyone will get bored with both championships and start watching BTCC, GT and WRC instead.

S.
 

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Thanks Anthracite, that's a question I was meaning to ask actually... :D

Did anyone actually get the Sky F1+ coverage of the GP. I was thinking about it, but I think I might wait until one of the races is on during daylight hours... :)
 
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On the Sky front I'm definately gonna wait for the European races.

Interactive TV is fine but you have to be awake to use it.

I've read thru everyones posts, digested the points you made and fully considered my answer....

Basically take off them rose coloured glasses, next you'll be telling me everything was better in the sixites, not like nowadays (ie anything after 1970) beatles and the stones, ena sharples, pint for a sixpence.


It wasn't better you were just enjoying yourself more than you do now cos you got older and forgotten whats it's like to have optimism of your future.

I've just been heard an interesting statistic about the Euro (huh whats 'e on about I hear you say) but heres my point.


they split the respondents by age to the question "Should we join the Euro" The must anti Euro group where the under 25's .....


The reason this is the first Generation in an age that's growing up in a time when UK is properous and at the forefront of world politics and events, they have belief in the themselves and the country.

We (I include myself) have lived thru depressions and crashes and wars and terrorists and strikes and the rest and we just dont have the same outllook.

So you see we look back at the things that were good and they seem even better because everthing else was crap.

Where as today so much is good that unless something or someone is exceptional (schumi) we look at it as ordinary.

anyhow enuff rambling - that should give us somthing to talk about
 
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All this talk of f1 being boring is old news really, i've been watching for 15 years or so now & it's almost always been 1 team or another in the ascendancy with a very good driver who consistently whups everyone in qualifying, then shoots off into the distance in the race. Then it's a case of who will get 2nd or 3rd. I know there have been exceptions to this scenario, as there are those who enjoy seeing their favourite team/driver winning all the time, but i for one am getting bored with the way things are. As for the "political" side of things, it's almost as laughable as the house of commons. Put your handbags away girls!
I think it would be better if the grid were reversed on various occasions throughout the season, without the teams' prior knowledge, so we'd at least see some real racing now & then!
 
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Clive,

I like your thinking - don't they do something similar in another formula ? bikes maybe - "supergrid" or is it "superpole" can't remember now.

Personally I thought it was a great start to the season, minardi got some points Eddie was looking happy, and to all intents and purposes we get to start the season again next week.

All in all nothing to complain about.

Still think they should force the teams out in qualifing though at least on run every fifteen mins until there out of laps.


Steve
 
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Steve, we seem to agree on two points then.
The idea of making teams qualify when they're told to is a great idea, and would at least give the fans who've paid the extortionate entry fee some vfm!
As long as all the teams have to go out in the same 15 min. intervals there would be no cause for complaint from the perennial whingers in some of the teams about any missed opportunities!
 

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I have been in the past an avid supporter of F1. Looking back that frightens me, where has the time gone. There is no way around the point but F1 is a bore and turn off. I used to be so keen I would re-schedule my Sunday's so I could watch the Murray and James show. Fleetwoodmac "The Chain" meant racing.

Its all changed. The days when you could go racing and lead an F1 race in a kit car such as a March off the peg or buy lastyears car such as a Lotus or Hesketh have long gone. More is the pity and a sad state F1 has become.

The standards of drivers has certainly decreased over the years. Look how many accidents happen at the first corner. Years ago this did not happen. It's all down to lack of experience and driving in "traffic". The last major prang was driver error (RS). The list of accidents over the last 5 years is endless.

If one goes back to the 1960's you will note that there were the likes of Clark, Hill, Surtees, Brabham, Hulme, Gurney etc who never really won the World Championship convincingly. This was a period when top class drivers competed for the world Championship. The same goes for the 1970's. Hunt, Stewart, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Regazzoni, Andretti, Peterson, Watson, Jones. These were all world class drivers who all won races and those that won the championships by a narrow margin.

Who have we had in the 90's. Hill (nice chap), Hakkinnen, Bootmaker, Bootmaker, Bootmaker and more cobblers. Not exciting stuff is it.

How can we remedy this. Well a couple of suggestions have been mooted, reverse the grid, balast or all have the same car.

Either way F1 needs to sort its act out to cease the repetitive nature it is giving.

F1 is selfish as well. Mike Hailwood won the George Medal for pulling Regazzoni out of his burning Ferrari in South Africa. David Purley was also awarded the George Medal for attempting to pull Roger Williamson out of his blazing March at the Dutch Drand Prix in '73. Could you really see any of the modern crop of drivers trying to rescue a fellow racer. Not on your nelly. They would have to be logoed up and have sole TV writes before doing so!


Jim
Ex F1 Supporter
 

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Jim, interesting comments.

What do you make of my suggestion that the increase in first corner accidents is down to the cars being much safer than they used to be? (In the past, if you had an accident in an F1 car, you had a good chance of being maimed or killed).

I also think you are being rather unfair to the current crop of drivers, although not with their driving ability. There simply is no longer the need for drivers to get involved with helping other drivers, as the marshalling is so much better these days.

However, last year when Burti had a major accident with Irvine, the first person to try and do anything to help Burti was Irvine. The marshalling was awful, and no-one seemed to know what to do. Irvine, for all his faults (of which there are many) co-ordinated the rescue attempt until more appropriate people arrived on the scene. What I found hard to believe is that Irvine having been in an accident, managed to get out of his stricken car, run over to Burti, and start removing tyres before anyone else even got there!
 

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Nick, lets not kid ourselves. Irvine is in a different mould to others. Yep he shoots from the hip and willingly expresses his opinion. I like the chap. Who managed and coached him - the late James Hunt. Irvine is in the wrong era.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #19
apart from eddie their dont seem to be any "characters" in F1 now .most of them have had personality by-passes :D
 

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the voice of reason!!!
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It's getting to the stagr where pure skill is no longer the main factor in F1. Now it all hinges about how many millions are spent on development.
Don't forget that in the quest for ultimate speed, a dog (Leika ?) piloted a space craft before any human.
 
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