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To reduce running cossts would you:

  • Buy an aygo/c1/107 to use for 6/12 months a year

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • LPG convert your 180

    Votes: 9 60.0%
  • Neither

    Votes: 5 33.3%
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been looking at runing costs a bit. Thought I would post a poll.

There are various advantages and disadvantages. I think LPG, as it would mean more miles in the ZS but I am worried that the tax will inevitably rise and make it a waste of time and money. Aygo just because I would enjoy ragging it tbh. Just thinking out loud... would be interested to hear what other people think on this. I thought it best to have foolish ideas wheil I dont have the money to act on them ;)

edit that is "6 out of 12" not "6 or 12". Trying to run both would result in a very expensive Aygo shaped garden ornament.

EDIT: found a kit for £300, voted LPG.
55mpg would equal or better the aygo, tax and insurance (~500 a year combined difference?) woudln't justify buying a 5grand car!
 

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No idea what Aygo is but LPG has always tracked Petrol price at the same lower rate. Basically, half price. It didn't turn out to be as popular as people expected so they left the tax alone. If it was any more expensive the cost of converting to LPG would make it unviable. If you want LPG you're better off buying a car that already has it fitted. A new conversion will take at least 2 to 3 years to pay for itself with above average mileage.
 

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There was a fantastic 4/5 page article on LPG in October issue of Car Mechanics magazine. http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/

They concluded that its still a valid option. LPG systems have improved considerably since the 'LPG boom and bust' days.

Gas is clean, it's lowers your CO2 (£10 off your road tax) and you can go longer between oil services (oil never goes black).

Tax on gas hasn't been increased at such high rates at petrol/diesel, it's likely to stay that way.

Equivalent of 50mpg on a 2.5 V6, I'd go LPG. :racer:
 
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LPG kit for £300?

You won't get much for that, does it even include the tank?
 

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Get a smaller frugal motor. I got a 1.5 nissan note dci 55mpg locally and up to 70mpg on a run. It means that me and the Mrs can still afford to go off for good days out tbh.
 

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Equivalent of 50mpg on a 2.5 V6, I'd go LPG. :racer:
If you averaged 30+ mpg on petrol you might get that, costwise. But I don't know many 180s that are that frugal. My guess would be nearer 40 mpg (equivalent) for most driving. Less for urban. Remember, half price LPG doesn't mean half your costs. LPG is at best 85% as efficient as petrol. Although, I'm sure someone will come up with a more optimistic figure.
 

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I can remember when derv was a lot cheaper than petrol, trying to get people into derv cars.

Now we have more dervs on the road and what happened, derv is more expensive than petrol. I'm no expert but thought derv is less refined than petrol, lower on the "cracking" or whatever.

If it takes less effort why does it cost more???

LPG is good when its half the cost of petrol, but I wouldnt bet the house, on the government upping the tax, when the usage starts climbing up!!!!!

:wave:
 

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I can remember when derv was a lot cheaper than petrol, trying to get people into derv cars.

Now we have more dervs on the road and what happened, derv is more expensive than petrol. I'm no expert but thought derv is less refined than petrol, lower on the "cracking" or whatever.

If it takes less effort why does it cost more???

LPG is good when its half the cost of petrol, but I wouldnt bet the house, on the government upping the tax, when the usage starts climbing up!!!!!

:wave:
You answered your own post Peter. The price has gone up as the Gov't have realised that diesel cars are popular and it is now perceived as being a dirty fuel with lots of particulates etc. Hence new diesels with useless DPF's fitted.
Oh, and don't forget to include the global warming "green" taxes as well.

Same thing is starting to happen with LPG now as more vehicles can use it, so the Gov't can make more ££ out of us.
*******s!:stir:
Funny thing is, there are now less cars on the road due to the costs, so the Treasury is losing fuel duty as folk leave there cars at home or drive smaller engined fuel economy motors.
 

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The wife has a Toyota Aygo and I do drive it when not commuting to work in the 180. It is a small car so parking and manoeuvring in supermarket car is very easy. Not a very big boot though. Hers is a semi auto and do get about 50mpg (can't remember exactly what it is). Cheap as chips to tax. £20 for her 08 plate. With the semi auto box it does drive like a go kart. The 1L engine needs to be revved.
 

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I'm no expert but thought derv is less refined than petrol, lower on the "cracking" or whatever.

If it takes less effort why does it cost more???
The cost is in refining the oil. When you refine oil you get a certain amount of diesel and a certain amount of petrol, along with a lot of other things. You can't say I don't want the petrol so I will leave it as diesel because they are seperate parts of the oil. The result is that years ago when most cars used petrol there was too much diesel and it was cheap, a couple of years ago they were the same price and in a few years time as more and more cars are diesel cars the diesel will become a lot more expensive. Currently over 50% of new cars are diesel cars while most scrapped cars are petrol so diesel is sure to continue its rise while the relative price of petrol is certain to drop. LPG comes from a different source and will probably rise by the average of petrol and diesel. combined. The cheapest and greenest fuel will be electricity.
 

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There is also the duty to consider, the last goverment increased the duty on diesel much more than for petrol.

There is still a glut of LPG worldwide.

Electric cars are only green because the pollution occurs at the power station.
 

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Electric cars are only green because the pollution occurs at the power station.
So use green electricity from wind turbines, then the pollution occurs in the sun instead of on earth!

(Right now 7.9% of our electricity is from wind turbines and another 1.6 from water.)
 

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Thanks for the reply Windy, can understand it a bit better now, down to supply and demand, I suppose.

The government know they have a easily collected tax and put whatever % they want, to give a final pump price.

Electric cars are OK until you look at what powers them. They need to store the "green" power somehow. Batteries are heavy, have a lowish life span and then have to be recycled or land filled.

If you had electric cars powered by photo electric cells, that would be green, but wouldnt run if it was cloudy or at night. So batteries again to store the electricity. I dont know how the new batteries are being developed, but the old lead/acid ones are old hat now.

What about hydrogen powered cars, that would be green. Fill up with water, put it through a gizmo and run the car on hydrogen and have water as a waste product.
 

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What about hydrogen powered cars, that would be green. Fill up with water, put it through a gizmo and run the car on hydrogen and have water as a waste product.
If water was the waste product then you could collect it and use it to refill - do your own recycling and you would never run out!

Unfortunately you need to fill a hydrogen car with hydrogen which is hard to get hold of and uses a lot of electricity to make so you might as well use a battery.

I dont know how the new batteries are being developed, but the old lead/acid ones are old hat now.
Yes, they use lithium ion batteries these days, fully recyclable and if you charge them overnight when the wind power isn't being used for other things then the fuel should be even cheaper.

(We are now up to 8.8% wind powered electricity.)
 

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What I could never understand is why there isnt a car that could run on electricity, that it generates itself.

If you had a small 100cc engine to power a "super" alternator, or 5 or 6 alternators that could then drive an electric motor.

Once the electric motor was spinning you could have a flywheel that would then take over and keep the belts spinning for the alternators to produce the electricity. Bit like perpetual motion.

Or do electric cars use so much power??

Just that I was bought up on dynamos, the alternators produce so much more power at low revs. Why cant they develop one that kicks out mega volts???

Or am I missing something????
 

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What I could never understand is why there isnt a car that could run on electricity, that it generates itself.

If you had a small 100cc engine to power a "super" alternator, or 5 or 6 alternators that could then drive an electric motor.

Once the electric motor was spinning you could have a flywheel that would then take over and keep the belts spinning for the alternators to produce the electricity. Bit like perpetual motion.

Or do electric cars use so much power??

Just that I was bought up on dynamos, the alternators produce so much more power at low revs. Why cant they develop one that kicks out mega volts???

Or am I missing something????
The Roewe 550 hybrid that comes out next year and presumably its sister the MG6 at some point does have a petrol-electric engine where the petrol engine only generates electricity and the wheels are driven only by electric motors, no flywheels but it does generate electricity from braking like KERS on Formula 1 cars. It also has batteries that you can charge up overnight so on a short commute you don't need any petrol.

They are saying that it does 100Km on under 3 liters of petrol.

Only problem is the cost, but at the moment the Roewe 750 hybrid is actually cheaper than a standard petrol Roewe 750, it also accelerates faster!
 

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Cheers Windy, must be the way to go, with the dwindling supply of oil, plus the troubles in the main producing areas.
 

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Cheers Windy, must be the way to go, with the dwindling supply of oil, plus the troubles in the main producing areas.
I'm fairly sure that is the way it will go, the question is how soon. The technology is here now, but it needs either a push from the governments or another significant oil price rise.

(Wind is providing only at 7.2% of our electricity tonight.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I am averaging 30mpg on this car and at 15K a year I figured I spent about 2K a year on petrol so a kit would pay for itself in a year.

http://autogas-lpg.co.uk/conversion-kit/719-stag-300-premium-6-cylinders-conversion-kit.html for the kit, I need to check whether this is the site I've heard bad things about, but like anything, I've heard good too.
At the price it pays for itself in 6 months! No solenoid but I'm not even sure what that's for yet.

Now back to the discussion about electrics :) I'm not a fan until we get round to cold fusion.
 
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